What does love have to do with it, Mr. Osteen?

I've been distracted lately with several things, the deception of Joel Osteen not being the least of them. Before I say anything more about him, let's look at what he said in an interview with Larry King on June 20, 2005.

Weak on Sin and the wages of it

KING: Is -- have you always believed?

OSTEEN: I have always believed. I grew up, you know, my parents were a good Christian people. They showed us love in the home. My parents were the same in the pulpit as they were at home. I think that's where a lot of preachers' kids get off base sometimes. Because they don't see the same things at both places. But I've always believed. I saw it through my parents. And I just grew up believing.

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and damnation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?

OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.

KING: You've been criticized for that, haven't you?

OSTEEN: I have. I have. Because I don't know.

KING: Good news guy, right?

OSTEEN: Yeah. But you know what? It's just in me. I search my heart and I think, God, is this what I'm supposed to do? I made a decision when my father died, you know what? I'm going to be who I feel like I'm supposed to be. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Not the end of the world if I'm not the pastor ...

Pastor Osteen, lets look at a Bible verse that many children know.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) 

If you are truly a pastor, Mr. Osteen, then your job is to teach that verse along with the verses that come after it.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:17-18) 

You see, Mr. Osteen, God says that people are condemned already. The message of hope that you are supposed to give them is that Christ died on the cross to atone for the sins of whoever might believe in Him and receive Jesus as their Savior. 

Weak on Heaven and Hell

KING: So it's self-fulfilling. Billy Graham was here last Thursday.

OSTEEN: I saw.

KING: Might have been his last interview. Is he a hero to the evangelists?

OSTEEN: He is a hero to us all. His life of integrity. Somebody that can stick with for that long and just stick with his message. What I love about Dr. Graham is he stayed on course. He didn't get sidetracked. That's what happens to so many people today. It's a good lesson for me, a good example for me to say, you know what, Joel, you may have a lot now but I want to be here 40 years from now sitting with you.

KING: Do you share Billy's beliefs of life after death in a sense of going somewhere?

OSTEEN: I do. I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there's a heaven you know. Afterwards, there's, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it's when we have a relationship with God and his son Jesus and that's what the Bible teaches us. I believe it.

Osteen is weak at best on heaven and hell, but I don't expect much from a man who refuses to put a cross in the sanctuary of his 16,000 seat church. But I think much more is going on here. Read that last bit carefully. He says that he believes there is a heaven, and afterward there is a place called hell. And then he goes on to say something about Jesus and the Bible, but he isn't clear on what they have to do with heaven or hell.

I can see why some are tempted to call this man an agent of Satan. At the final judgment, the condemned are going to stand before the throne of God to be judged. They had better get their heaven here on earth, as Osteen seems to suggest, because there will be hell afterward. They'd better get their best life now, because they might be surprised to learn that they weren't saved after all.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:11-15 KJV)

Too bad there isn't a man in the pulpit at Lakewood Church in Houston who cares enough to make sure they know the basics of salvation (sin and the cross). But Osteen won't preach on these things. He has willfully decided not to tell people about what they need to do to get into the Lamb's Book of Life. He'd have to preach about the cross to do that. No, he'll just toss the Book of Life into a sermon occasionally to have something encouraging to say.

By the way, Mr. Osteen, I know a little something about Billy Graham. You could learn a lot about preaching from him. He was never weak on heaven and hell. You are a poor substitute for Billy Graham. You ought to take lessons from him.

Feels bad about the Bible

KING: But it (Your Best Life Now) doesn't quote a lot of biblical passages until the back of the book, right?

OSTEEN: It doesn't do a whole lot of it. My message, I wanted to reach the mainstream. We've reached the church audience. So I just try to, what I do is just try to teach practical principles. I may not bring the scripture in until the end of my sermon and I might feel bad about that. Here's the thought. I talked yesterday about living to give. That's what a life should be about. I brought in at the end about some of the scriptures that talk about that. But same principal in the book.

Gosh, I guess that is the hazard when you try to teach popular psychology from a pulpit. People playing church expect you to say something gratuitous from the Bible once in a great while. I'm sorry you feel bad about it, Mr. Osteen. Perhaps you could get away with leaving the Bible out altogether if you quit calling yourself a pastor?

He wants a relationship with Jesus, but doesn't think it is necessary

KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

It must be great to have some kind of vague conviction about needing a Savior, Mr. Osteen. Too bad that you've decided not to share God's doctrine of salvation with those poor saps in India, or Houston, or the millions who watch you on TV. You must really have a ton of faith to trust that all those people have heard the Gospel somewhere else before you get your clutches on them. I guess as long as they believe in whatever, who are you to tell them different?

Why to hear you, Mr. Osteen, I can almost hear (bar) Jesus. "Rise and walk, thy sincerity hath made thee whole. Go and doubt no more"

Love has everything to do with it, Mr. Osteen

The right way to teach people about the love of God, Mr. Osteen, is to tell them that Christ died on the cross so that they might have eternal life by believing on Him. The cross is an essential part of the love of God, which you purposely leave out.

From the foundation of the world

"I want you to get a bigger vision. There are exciting things in your future. Your future is filled with marked moments of blessing, increase, promotion. God has already ordained before the foundation of the world, the right people, the right opportunity. Time and chance are coming together for you. Why don’t you get your hopes up?" Osteen tells his audience. "Why don't you start believing that no matter what you have or haven't done, that your best days are still out in front of you."  -- Joel Osteen from video clip featured in an October 2007 interview on the CBS program, 60 Minutes

Joel Osteen tells his listeners that God has ordained earthly prosperity for them.  He says that God has set up people and opportunities from the foundation of the world for them to get an increase or a promotion. Does the Bible say that? Lets see...

The phrase "foundation of the world" is found in ten places, all in the New Testament. It is used to speak of secrets that Christ taught in parables; a kingdom to be occupied by believers after the judgment of the sheep and the goats; blood for which Israel is judged, love between the father and the son, ...etc. The references are listed below. And none of them refer to opportunities appointed to specific believers to reap prosperity. 

1. things which have been kept secret (Mat 13:35)
2. the kingdom prepared for believers (Mat 25:34)
3. the blood of all the prophets, which was shed (Luk 11:50)
4. the love of the Father for the Son (Joh 17:24)
5. believers chosen (Joh 17:24)
6. the works (of God) were finished (Heb 4:3)
7. blood of an inferior sacrifice shed many times (Heb 9:26)
8. Christ, the lamb (1Pe 1:20)
9. Christ, the lamb slain (Rev 13:8)
10. names were not written in the book of life (Rev 17:8)

Osteen admits that he isn't qualified to teach the Bible and he doesn't feel called to do that. He wants to be a life-coach to the Church. He apparently doesn't mind making up doctrine to motivate Christians to do what he thinks they ought to do. He spent $100 million remodeling a basketball arena for preaching, but he forgot to include a cross in the sanctuary. He doesn't think he needs one, answering "I don't know" when asked why a cross isn't there.

People claim that he preaches the Gospel, but how can he do that when he leaves the cross out of it?

Conversations with God

I've been spending gobs of time extracting the "words of God" from the Holy Bible. It's not as easy as it sounds but I find it very rewarding. I am using FreeMind to build an outline. I've gone entirely through Genesis and Exodus so far. I'm working on Leviticus, Numbers, Matthew, and Revelation.

I guess I started to do this after completing my evaluation of the Kersey Graves book. That was kind of hard to do, because it required digging into pagan religion, which I find repulsive and ridiculous. There was a time when I found the Holy Bible repulsive and ridiculous and would have enjoyed the pagan theology. I thank God that he didn't let me have my way to chase after false religion. Anyhow, I guess I needed to get back into heavenly things on a deep level after wrapping my mind around the unclean things.

Two things really stand out so far. God has much more to say to His people than He does to those who reject Him. And He chases after redeemed people who stray. Those two things don't stand out in Genesis as much as they do in Exodus, but there was a lot of grace in Genesis.

Paul tells us in Romans that there was grace before the law was given, and that is what we find in Genesis. God tells Jacob in Shechem, to go to Bethel, where God met him years earlier (Genesis 35). But law becomes foremost after the children of Israel prematurely promised to keep it (Exodus 19). We don't find Joseph conversing with God at all (Genesis 37, 39-48), but he has the most godly things to say to his repentant brothers.

The conversations we find are not between God and the most godly saints, they're between God and sinful men. We see God speaking to Cain, but not to Abel. He converses with Balaam (Numbers 23-25), but not with Joseph. Those are extreme examples, but they illustrate the basic truth. This modern world, having the access to the Bible in abundance while rejecting it, is in danger of the greater condemnation. Jesus himself said that Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum, having witnessed His mighty works would suffer the greater judgment (Matthew 11).

J. Vernon McGee made the observation that Peter and John probably weren't close to Jesus because they were the best apostles. McGee said they probably needed the most discipling, like babies that need to be carried everywhere. I was reminded of that after doing this conversation study in Exodus. God speaks to Moses from the mount, but moves to the tent of meeting, just outside the camp , after the transgression of the golden calf (Exodus 33).

I wish the Church would teach the Old Testament the way it deserves to be presented. I can't remember the last time the pastor of my church spent much time outside of the New Testament. The Church seems to be missing a lot of what God has to say to it.